Two interesting paintings signed "Vincent" and "TL", found 1942 Nederlandse versie van dit document

Two interesting paintings signed "Vincent" and "TL", found in the end of the thirties
Three paintings probably made in 1886 by Vincent van Gogh and Toulouse-Lautrec

      

A businessman in the past century collected as hobby paintings, etchings and drawings. He had a good view of the matter but could not afford to buy expensive works. For that reason the greater part of the collection consists of unsigned work of good quality, in which sometimes the styles of great masters can be recognized.
Works from the French impressionists are not included; those were in those days already too expensive for him.

An exception are two paintings signed with "Vincent".
He bought the two "Vincents" in a gallery in the Netherlands in the end of the thirties. When he bought them, him was told that the painter could be Vincent van Gogh. The paintings are two townscapes ( in Paris on the same site? ) a market painted in two directions. The style and the clear spring colors look like the style of the French impressionists.
The two signatures have much resemblance with Vincent van Gogh's signatures in the period between 1884 and 1889.

It is known that Van Vincent van Gogh after his arrival in Paris in March 1886 was introduced in the circle of the impressionists, among them his friend Toulouse-Lautrec, and has experimented with several painting styles before he developed the well known style of his later work.
https://www.vangoghmuseum.nl/en/collectie/d0693V1962:
The French painter Toulouse-Lautrec met Van Gogh, who was ten years older than him, at Fernand Cormon’s studio, where they were both taking lessons. They probably worked together intensively for a while, as the style and technique of their paintings in this period look very similar.
In his period in Paris (March 1886 – February 1888) the colors of his pallet are clearly influenced by the impressionists. He made there more than 200 paintings, among them sights in Paris, especially in Montmartre. Much work by him was unmarketable and got lost or is missing.
www.vangoghgallery.com/misc/later.html:
"By early 1886, he had moved to Paris to live with his brother Theo. Here Vincent was immersed in a centrifuge of modern art from the impressionist and post impressionists. Van Gogh quickly dropped the dark colors he had used to create The Potato Eaters after discovering the palette to be horrendously out of date. He adopted the brighter more vibrant colors with ease and began experimenting with the techniques he saw in the art of the impressionist and post impressionists."

The collection paintings, etchings and drawings are kept intact and were never published. Also his deceased son kept the collection intact and never published it, and willed the whole collection to a good friend.
The statements above can be verified partly with documents and notary statements.

June 2006 the photographs of both paintings have been evaluated by experts in the Van Gogh Museum in Amsterdam, in the Louvre-Musee d'Orsay in Paris and in the Kroller-Muller museum in Otterlo Nld.
They did not recognize the style of Vincent van Gogh in the paintings.
  

The following opinion was provided by Janet G. Smith in December 2017. ( Click on the last 4 links to read the correspondence in 2006 and 2017/2018)
           Janet G. Smith Fine Art Consulting & Appraisal
           Telephone: (402) 320-1239
           www.jgsart.com : Fine art appraisal and art consulting
           PO Box 120214
           Clermont, FL 34712
           Florida USA
           Curriculum vitae of Janet G. Smith, 13 pages
She found in the upper left corner of Picture #2 another, on the first layer a for the greater part over painted signature:
"TL Vincent": a monogram of Toulouse-Lautrec and the signature Vincent.
Her opinion is the paintings may in fact be two collaborative paintings of Vincent and Toulouse-Lautrec in Paris, date 1886.

See the monogram of Toulouse-Lautrec and the signature Vincent in the upper left corner of Picture #2
- in the contrast enhanced photo detail in a new window:
           Picture #2, Contrast enhanced photo detail
- in the contrast enhanced photo detail negative in a new window:
           Picture #2, Contrast enhanced photo detail- negative
- in the contrast enhanced photo detail with filled in "TL Vincent" signatures in a new window:
           Picture #2, Contrast enhanced photo detail- with filled in signatures

See also the signature "V nc  t" in the upper left corner of Picture #1 and largely over painted.
- in the contrast enhanced photo detail in a new window:
           Picture #1, Contrast enhanced photo detail
- in the contrast enhanced photo detail with filled in "V nc  t" signatures in a new window:
           Picture #1, Contrast enhanced photo detail with partly filled in signature

X-ray photo's of the paintings, made 2018_01_06
You can see all X-ray photo's on: X-ray images of both paintings
The X-ray images combined to the complete paintings and scaled down to 1280x1024 pixels ::
           Complete X-ray picture of Painting-1, 1280x1024      and    Complete X-ray picture of Painting-2, 1280x1024
The X-ray images combined to the complete paintings are about 20 mB and 15000 x 13500 pixels
           Complete X-ray picture of Painting-1, real size      and    Complete X-ray picture of Painting-2, real size

First-view Infrared photo's of the paintings, made 2018_01_06:
           - Infra rood picture-1,
           - Infra rood picture-2,
           - Infra rood picture-2 Detail.

The photo's dated 2006 are made again in 2018, but now with the frames removed.
           see: New photo's made 2018_01_06
The photos without the frame from 2018: Picture-2 gave a surprise:
           The combination "TL Vincent" is somewhat smaller also on the first layer in the upper left corner of picture#2 under the frame !
           So two times "TL Vincent" on the first layer under the blue sky.

     

Janet G. Smith, Fine Art Consulting & Appraisal, Clermont, FL 34712 , Florida USA
asked us to contact the Louvre and the Van Gogh Museum with the new information

           - The Kröller-Müller Museum has not the required expertise and referred to the Van Gogh Museum in Amsterdam.
           - The Louvre-Musee / d'Orsay in Paris stopped appraisal of paintings and referred to
               VAN GOGH EXPERTS, 595 N. Nova Rd. Suite 202, Ormond Beach, FL 32174, in Florida USA:
                http://vangoghexperts.com/index.html:
               The answer of VAN GOGH EXPERTS was 17 Jan 2018 :
               Mail_answer_from_VAN_GOGH_EXPERTS_17_01_2018.docx:
               "Yes, we agree the paintings have the potential to be by Vincent Van Gogh.
               Let us know if you want us to authenticate them.     Yours sincerely,     Mark Winter."

The subfolders of this homepage are:
           - the 4 subfolders with : all photo's in 2006 and in 2018, the X-ray photo's and the Infra red photo's, with all photo's
           - the Correspondence, with all correspondence
           - the pictures on this homepage
           - Luisa Sanchez's Impressionist Painting#3 and its Correspondence.


The third painting
March 2017 Luisa Sanchez, living in Caracas, Venezuela, found this website.
A few years ago she bought a painting, very similar to the two "Vincents".
Nobody, among them the 'Laboratorio Scientifico del MUSEO D’ARTE E SCIENZA, Milan' and the Van Gogh Museum in Amsterdam in 2011 could tell her who painted it.
Her painting is now also on this website and it has also in the left-upper corner a symbol strongly looking like the "TL" monogram of Toulouse-Lautrec.

Also in Janet G. Smith's opinion and solo opinion is the painting the work of two artists, Vincent van Gogh and Henri de Toulouse-Lautrec. The date is 1886.
"From: "janet g. smith"
Date: Feb 10, 2018 2:44 AM
Subject: Re: Nuevas iniciales
To: "Luisela Sanchez"

Dear Luisela,
Thank you for the additional information about your family picture, Market Scene.
It is my personal opinion and solo opinion that your picture is the work of two artists,
Vincent van Gogh and Henri de Toulouse=Lautrec. The date is 1886.
The upper left is where the signature and monogram appear.
Please keep the picture safe.
Best regards, Janet
      Janet G. Smith Fine Art Consulting & Appraisal
      Telephone: (402) 320-1239 www.jgsart.com
"
           Mail from Janet Smith to Luise Sanchez Solo opinion 2018-02-10.pdf
        


The question remains: Who painted these paintings ?                                                        Info : HansLeibbrandt@onsbrabantnet.nl


Click in the photos to see them full size, in a new window


Picture#1, Photo made June 2006, Oil on canvas. 64 x 53 cm , signature in the right-lower corner and its "Vincent" signature on the first layer in the left-upper corner
         


Picture #1, Photo made once again Jan 2018, Frame removed, better camera.



Picture#2, Photo made June 2006, Oil on canvas. 64 x 53 cm , signature in the right-lower corner and its "TL" signature on the first layer in the left-upper corner


Picture #2, Photo made once again Jan 2018, Frame removed, better camera.



Luisa's Painting#3, Oil on canvas. 73 x 60 cm , "TL" signature in the left-upper corner and its "TL" signature (UV-IMAGE), in the left-upper corner.

Certificate, results of the scientific tests by Laboratorio Scientifico del MUSEO D’ARTE E SCIENZA , Milan, 09/06/2011
  


The signatures on the Pictures #1 and #2, and two signatures of Vincent van Gogh. (Paris, February-March, 1887) and (Arles, March, 1888 )

          
  


Vincent van Gogh: Pont du Carrousel and the Louvre. Oil on canvas. 31 × 44 cm (12.2 × 17.3 in). Paris: June, 1886
Museum Carlsberg Glyptotek - Copenhagen
           Look at the largely over painted text (signatures?) under the clouds on the first layer.